this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/2916091

Former US President Donald Trump has been charged with attempting to overturn his 2020 election loss in the state of Georgia.

He and 18 others have been indicted on counts that include racketeering in a 41-charge document issued by a Fulton County grand jury.

The indictment marks the fourth time Mr Trump has been criminally charged this year.

He has denied the accusations in all cases.

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis launched an investigation in February 2021 into allegations of election meddling against Mr Trump and his associates.

The list of defendants indicted late on Monday night includes former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, former White House lawyer John Eastman and a former justice department official, Jeffrey Clark.

The indictment says the alleged co-conspirators "knowingly and willfully joined a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in favor of Trump".

The charge sheet also refers to the defendants as a "criminal organization", accusing them of a number of crimes, including:

False statements and writings
Impersonating a public officer
Forgery
Filing false documents
Influencing witnesses
Computer trespass
Conspiracy to defraud the state
Theft and perjury.

The most serious charge, violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (Rico) Act, is punishable by a maximum of 20 years in prison.

The act - designed to help take down organised criminal syndicates like the mafia - helps prosecutors connect the dots between underlings who broke laws and those who gave them marching orders.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago (21 children)

Wait, I don't get it, isn't it confirmed that Trump tried to overturn the Georgia election by calling up the Georgia Secretary of State on the phone and asking him to find votes?

Can you plead not guilty to stabbing a guy if a bunch of people watch you stab that guy?

How does the presumption of innocence legally survive when it's recorded and confirmed that you are guilty?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because that’s the way it is man…

I can live-stream myself performing a public execution in front of a crowded stadium full of people, and plead not-guilty. And the presumption of innocence before the court means I can do that as much as I want regardless how obviously guilty I may be.

And like it or not, that’s better than the alternative. A presumption of guilt before the court opens oneself to much more easily be wrongfully imprisoned for crimes you didn’t commit. Not accounting for obvious injustices that have occurred due to shortcomings and corruption in the system, these initial principals give us the best shot at having a system that’s less likely to fuck us than not.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So the presumption of innocence is only forfeited by a confession, full stop?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

A conviction is only supposed to happen if it's proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" the defendant is guilty of the crime(s) they're charged with. They're "presumed innocent" until they're afforded due process (a trial, plea, etc) by the court.

A "not guilty" plea essentially just means "I want a trial".

A confession isn't a plea -- it could have been coerced, the result of misunderstanding, mental impairment, etc. A trial gives the defense the opportunity to make those arguments.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Okay, a not guilty plea being a request for a trial clicked into place for me with your explanation, thanks.

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