this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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Relaxed section for discussion and debate that doesn't fit anywhere else. Whether it's advice, how your week is going, a link that's at the back of your mind, or something like that, it can likely go here.


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This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

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There is a lot of discussion happening in the background of our project here. We could not anticipate all of the challenges that we were going to face a few years ago. One of the reasons for this was because we had no idea what our choice of a platform would bring.

Specifically, we chose Lemmy as the software that we would use to launch our endeavor to attempt a safe space for marginalized persons online.

In the first year or so, this choice was completely successful for a very small number of users. And then we all experienced an enormous influx of users when Reddit announced/implemented their shutting down of third party apps.

Since then there has been a huge number of people that have joined the Beehaw project. This tsunami of users initiated technical problems, and otherwise, that we could not foresee.

Thankfully and fortunately, we have had a couple of incredibly knowledgeable persons that have swooped in to ’save the day’ and keep this site running.

Unfortunately, these persons will NOT be able to continue to support the Beehaw project much further. They have life commitments and other factors, including careers and family life, that will prevent them from contributing to our project in an ongoing fashion.

All that being said, Lemmy (the software that Beehaw runs on) development is incredibly slow and is riddled with problems that makes administration/moderation very painful.

Therefore, we are left with some options that may feel uncomfortable to us. For example, we may want to consider leaving the Fediverse for another software platform that does NOT include ActivityPub. To explain, Fediverse/ActivityPub are very positive concepts on the foundational level. However, the Beehaw project is struggling to include this because most of our moderation/content/ethos is being jeopardized from OTHER federated instances (i.e. it, mostly, is NOT coming from within our own Beehaw registered user base).

The aforementioned persons, that have ’swooped in to save the day’, have been discussing/working with us to come up with the best solutions that would enable the Beehaw project to continue while NOT needing incredibly experienced/technically adept persons around.

Right now, we are testing alternative software platforms and evaluating them based on everything that we want Beehaw to become in the future.

Thank you all for your continued support of the Beehaw project and entrusting us to make this happen.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (8 children)

The issue here isn't the front-end and can't be fixed with a new coat of wax.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (7 children)

What would be the main issues? I can think of some, and it pains me to not be able to help fix them, but maybe others could.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

The Reddit-style presentation of topics and ranking comments isn't really conducive to lengthy, quality discussions that persist over a period of time. The Reddit-style works for following current events and posting links to new things etc, but as a result, old topics - topics even a couple of days old - falls off the engagement radar. Once it's gone from the front page, it's gone from people's consciousness. This is bad for a small community with few posts that value quality of discussions over blind sharing of links. For instance, say I create a topic called "share your favorite vegan recipes" - I may get some replies in the first couple of days, but then the topic will fall off the frontpage and completely die. This is further exacerbated by the voting system. On Reddit/Lemmy, topics and comments which have a higher number of votes get more visibility, and this creates two issues - one is it encourages group think and creates an echo chamber, the other is that it drowns out less popular topics or comments. This sort of intentional drowning of posts and comments actually may be a good thing - and even necessary - on high-userbase systems like Reddit, where a single thread could have thousands of comments - but it works against low-traffic communities like Beehaw, where every comment is valuable (unless it's off-topic/spam etc of course).

Whereas in a traditional forum:

  • A topic gets bumped to the top when someone posts a comment, which encourages threads to live longer
  • There's not as much importance given to the "newness" of a post
  • The lack of votes on a topic would give equal importance to all topics
  • The lack of votes on comments would encourage people to actually chime in if they agree or disagree with a comment, instead of just blindly voting
  • Forums also allow you to show a categorized homepage, where you can have several sub-forums appear on the homepage all at once. This is a better approach than blindly unifying the entire feed in one page, because this allows threads in low-traffic subs to keep their visibility and compete against high-traffic subs. For instance, consider a current news sub which may get a lot of posts ever single day, vs a niche sub such as gardening. With a unified feed, you'd almost never see posts from a gardening sub, unless you went into that sub.

With all the above reasons, forums are therefore more conducive for encouraging discussions, over a place which simply acts like a feed aggregator. Traditional forums are the solution to the doomscrolling issues that plague modern social media. Plus, they offer better moderation tools, with better granular permissions granted to mods, so you could grant various levels of access. Also, you can place several restrictions on users to reduce spam, for instance, you could grant a user rights to post a topic only after they've read all the rules, and maybe participated in a quiz or something. You could grant additional rights to people who've gotten a certain number posts in their bag. You could have a "trusted poster" system where a user could have mod-like abilities. There's so many ways a forum is a lot more flexible than a system like Lemmy.

So overall, I think Beehaw's ethos and vision would align better with a traditional forum, over a feed-aggregator style forum like Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Wholeheartedly agree. Beehaw's vibe always felt more like a forum than a feed aggregator. I think that format would fit it better.

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