this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2023
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Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky has said the death of Yevgeny Prigozhin – the Russian mercenary leader whose plane crashed weeks after he led a mutiny against Moscow’s military leadership – shows what happens when people make deals with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

As Ukraine’s counteroffensive moves into a fourth month, with only modest gains to show so far, Zelensky told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria he rejected suggestions it was time to negotiate peace with the Kremlin.

“When you want to have a compromise or a dialogue with somebody, you cannot do it with a liar,” Volodymyr Zelensky said.

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (119 children)

So from having had a few exchanges with pro Russian accounts on Lemmy (which seems to be infested with a few very active ones) this is a summary of their arguments:

  • "Ukraine is Nazi"
  • "Well far right parties got a total of under 6% of the vote, and they elected a Jewish man president"
  • "yeah but Bandera and whatabout America"

  • "Ukraine killed ethnic Russians"
  • "A huge percentage of their population are ethnic Russians, including in government, and they are fine, and were until the Russian invasion. And now it's Russia that has killed, maimed and raped more ethnic Russians, including civilians, than Ukraine every did or even could. Including their own people thorough incompetence and corruption".
  • "Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America"

  • "Ukraine is fighting because they are forced to by their colonial masters, the USA and NATO, and Ukrainians will keep dying so long as they keep being armed"
  • "Actually > 90% of the population wants to continue fighting for their country back, so what you're basically saying is you think Ukrainians should be abandoned to Russian enslavement"
  • "Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America"

  • "NATO and USA are colonialists and this is just more colonialism"
  • "Actually both Russia and China are actual, bone fide land empires, with ethnic minorities that are forced to live like colonized people - including doing the fighting for Russia while their families back home live in misery and squalor and Putin's Mafia collect mansions, private jets and yachts"
  • "Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America"
[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago (28 children)

There's a reason Western Europe focuses on the Nazis in the context of the Holocaust: the Nazis never saw the Western Europeans as a stain on the Earth like they did the Jews and the Slavs. Russians don't need to point to Jews to claim Nazism: they can point directly to the treatment of ethnically Russian Slavs during WW2 and the plans that Nazi Germany had for the eradication of Slavs.

Russia doesn't need to point at how Ukraine treats Jews because to Russia, the Holocaust is dwarfed in societal impact by the issues that motivated Operation Barbarossa. The Russians lost 19 million Russian civilians in the war, why would they care about the Jews?

Nevermind that minorities in China get so many advantages it's actually silly how much affirmative action goes on. Provinces dominated by minorities get significantly more funding per capita and even get loss-leading infrastructure projects like the Tibet and Xinjiang railways. Students from minorities get additional bonuses on gaokao (basically SAT, but imagine if schools didn't look at anything else). Minorities are exempt from family planning policies and get massive interest-free loans for starting businesses. They get proportional representation in government. Hell, there are 55 minority groups in China making up 8% of the population.

In the army? The prevalence of rural populations in the army has been observed AROUND THE WORLD. It's a function of rural communities being rather poor and underserved by governments in general, as well as the lack of economic opportunities that living on a farm provides. In fact, the entire notion of the underserved countryside is what allowed communism to rise in Russia and China.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago (12 children)

Oh yeah CCP is all about diversity and minorities right?

I mean just ask the people of Tibet, or the Uyghurs right? They will tell you how much the Chinese government supports their minority culture.

Filthy fucking genocidal cunts. That's what the Chinese Communist Party is. And your attempt to create a positive spin of them is not as subtle as you think.

Tankie scum!

[–] [email protected] -2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Have you ever been to China? Ever talked to a person from a Chinese minority? Clearly not.

By and large their complaints are about a lack of economic opportunity (because, y'know, Inner Mongolia isn't exactly the most hospitable climate) and that the government affirmative action isn't enough to address the gap in resources. That's what you'll hear on the ground... And that's an absolutely fair concern.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have. I've known Tibetans personally and I can assure you that they wish China had never invaded their country and taken it over.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Ah yes, because Tibet before the CCP was a bastion of human rights protection. Who do you think you're convincing?

Still, clearly never been to China 🤷‍♀️

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well it's sure as shit not a bastion of human rights after the CCP invasion.

You've clearly never met a Tibettan refugee.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Do you understand Tibetan history up to that point? At least it's no longer a serfdom system (which Tibetan advocates will say was equal because of the one-in-a-million chance that one of the peasants can become the Dalai Lama and that everyone was totally happy because everyone was working towards bettering Buddhism). How many Tibetan refugees do you know who experienced serfdom?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The Tibetans should get to chose their government, not a communist dictatorship of a foreign country who undertook a military invasion and then practiced cultural and ethnic eradication in Tibet. If the Mao had not lied to the leadership of Tibet, and the chinese communists had not invaded, Tibet would most likely be a peaceful democracy now, as is the democratically elected government in exile. How's China going? Hold up a poster of Winnie the Poo in Beijing and let me know how you go.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You do realize that Tibetan independence was never recognized by any country, right? Not even the British.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You do realize that the chinese are furiously trying to extinguish Tibetan culture, right?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I too enjoy reading Western media instead of experiencing things first-hand.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Lol. I know Tibettan refugees. How many have you met?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Fuck off idiot, don't try to push a narrative that I'm nieve or uninformed. The persecution of minorities in China under the oppressive CCP is well documented and none of your tankie bullshit will change that.

I don't care how much revisionism, whataboutism, alternative facts, or straight up propaganda you throw at this, the fact remains the CCP is an oppressive, genocidal and brutal regime run by cunts.

And you in support of said cunts makes you a cunt. I don't like people who act like cunts. So fuck you!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

So... I'll take that as a no?

No first party sources, no evidence, and probably has never left a NATO country. Truly a well-informed opinion.

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