this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2024
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Why are you guys so eager for young men going to war to die?
I don't want young men to die, I want the Russians to go home, return Ukrainian sovereign territory, and live peacefully. I don't want Russians bombing and killing Ukraine or any other nation. I want them to fuck off, and if they won't fuck off, I want the Ukrainian military to kill them all and protect themselves.
Great, we all want the same thing, why is Ukraine and NATO not working toward a peace agreement? Why did NATO give weapons to Ukraine to propagate a war that they were always going to lose?
Because they offered "fuck off and we can have peace" but russia wants to keep eastern UA territories
And how exactly do they get those eastern territories back?
By russia withdrawing and recognizing other sovereign countries' borders. That'd be a good start.
Cool, they are not going to do that so what is the actual way to get back the eastern territories?
They mean 'kill every single ukranian in east ukraine' as they where trying to do pre-2020.
Who was trying to kill them?
The US-backed Ukrainian coup government and western Ukrainian fascists were trying to kill the eastern Ukrainian untermensch for the nine years before this war started.
west ukraine
To give a clear answer to the how: fight until russia fucks off.
What happens when they run out of men to fight?
Then russia invades further, kills more civvies and pushes further into european territory. Whats the question?
So you think that once russia loses they are going to invade further into Europe after they had a hard time taking over Ukraine?
You seem to have trouble with reading. Let me help you:
What happens if UKRAINE runs out of men to fight?
RUSSIA pushes on west into EUROPE.
What you're writing assumes that RUSSIA loses.
That is an entirely opposite scenario.
Sorry, I means to say "once Ukraine loses".
Im not sure what youre expecting here. You asked why NATO and Ukraine won't negotiate peace.
They tried. Years ago. Russia said fuck you and invaded further.
Now you moved the goal posts to seek blame on the defenders side again.
They actually had a tentative agreement in Spring of 2022, but then NATO flew in and offered them money and weaponry so they could fight more. I am not moving the goal posts I am just telling you what reality is - Ukraine is going to lose, there is no other outcome.
They either agree to peace on the current borders, which Russia is offering, or the war drags on for another 2 years and they dont have a choice in surrender (this comes with another 200k+ dead)
I dont care about nationalism personally, I only care about the lives of the working class. As such, any route to peace should be persued as quickly as possible.
Bruv youre not saying anything youre asking open leading questions.
And then you ask different questions when you dislike the answers. That's exactly what moving goalposts means. I understand you love russia but please read and think before you reply.
I am taking the logical argument in the direction that you guys are thinking to show its logically inconsistent. You guys just dont understand what is going on there and repeating one of two different talking point directions.
Elaborate.
Yes sir
We have to give weapons so that Ukraine can win.
Russia is Nazi Germany and will keep taking over all of Europe so we need to stop them now.
Both of these arguments are terrible and have huge holes.
This is a fascist folk band, they did a tour that involved going to western ukraine and stoking tensions + encouraging they commit acts of terror
https://genius.com/Death-in-june-snipers-of-the-maidan-lyrics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties
They would go on to write songs about it
in case you thought there was any ambiguity, this is the brain rot we're dealing with
This is literally just one example. Comparing Russia to the nazis here is genuinally insane.
I was sharing the beliefs of people pro war. They are not saying they are like the Nazis, they are claiming they have the same intention to take over countries.
Oh yeah my tone came off wrong there, more replying to the person they are talking to as im assuming they downvoted it; I hoped to show how the 'no nazis to see here' thing shitlibs love to do with downplaying ukraines actual fascist presence.
Good thing you made up both of them 👌
Sure dude, I totally did...
I didnt say either of those things so either you're projecting a different convo or you're making up strawman arguments
Cool then what is your reason that we should fund Ukraine?