this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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Technology
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It’s not turning copyright law on its head, in fact asserting that copyright needs to be expanded to cover training a data set IS turning it on its head. This is not a reproduction of the original work, its learning about that work and and making a transformative use from it. An generative work using a trained dataset isn’t copying the original, its learning about the relationships that original has to the other pieces in the data set.
The lines between learning and copying are being blurred with AI. Imagine if you could replay a movie any time you like in your head just from watching it once. Current copyright law wasn’t written with that in mind. It’s going to be interesting how this goes.
Imagine being able to recall the important parts of a movie, it's overall feel, and significant themes and attributes after only watching it one time.
That's significantly closer to what current AI models do. It's not copyright infringement that there are significant chunks of some movies that I can play back in my head precisely. First because memory being owned by someone else is a horrifying thought, and second because it's not a distributable copy.
the thought of human memory being owned is horrifying. We’re talking about AI. This is a paradigm shift. New laws are inevitable. Do we want AI to be able to replicate small creators work and ruin their chances at profitability? If we aren’t careful, we are looking at yet another extinction wave where only the richest who can afford the AI can make anything. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to be concerned.
The question to me is how you define what the AI is doing in a way that isn't hilariously overbroad to the point of saying "Disney can copyright the style of having big eyes and ears", or "computers can't analyze images".
Any law expanding copyright protections will be 90% used by large IP holders to prevent small creators from doing anything.
What exactly should be protected that isn't?
How many movies are based on each other? It's a lot, even if it's just loosely based on it. If you stopped allowing that then you would run out of new things to do.
There has been an interesting counter-proposal to that: make all copies "non-distributable" by replacing the 1:1 copying, by AI:AI learning, so the new AI would never have a 1:1 copy of the original.
It's in part embodied in the concept of "perishable software", where instead of having a 1:1 copy of an OS installed on your smartphone/PC, a neural network hardware would "learn how to be a smartphone/PC".
Reinstalling, would mean "killing" the previous software, and training the device again.
Right, because the cool part of upgrading your phone is trying to make it feel like its your phone, from scratch. Perishable software is anything but desirable, unless you enjoy having the very air you breathe sold to you.
Well, depends on desirable "by whom".
Imagine being a phone manufacturer and having all your users running a black box only you have the means to re-flash or upgrade, with software developers having to go through you so you can train users' phones to "behave like they have the software installed"
It's a dictatorial phone manufacturer's wet dream.
Yes, that's exactly my problem with it.
Two points:
These AIs can't do that; they need thousands or millions of repetitions to "learn" the movie, and every time they "replay" the movie it is different from the original.
"learning by rote" is something fleshbags can do, and are actually required to by most education systems.
So either humans have been breaking the copyright all this time, or the machines aren't breaking it either.
You have one brain. You could have as many instances of AI as you can afford. In a general sense, it’s different, and acting like it’s not is going to hit you like a freight train if you don’t prepare for it.
That's a different goalpost. I get the difference between 8 billion brains, and 8 billion instances of the same AI. That has nothing to do with whether there is a difference in copyright infringement, though.
If you want another goalpost, that IMHO is more interesting: let's discuss the difference between 8 billion brains with up to 100 years life experience each, vs. just a million copies of an AI with the experience of all human knowledge each.
It’s all theoretical at this stage, but like everything else that society waits until it’s too late for, I think it’s reasonable to be cautious and not just let AI go unregulated.
It's not reasonable to regulate stuff before it gets developed. Regulation means establishing some limits and controls on something, which can't be reasonably defined before that "something" even exists, much less tested or decided whether the regulation has whatever desired effects it intends.
For what is worth, a "theoretical regulation" already exists: it's the Asimov's Rules of Robotics. Turns out current AIs are not robots, and that regulation is nonsense when applied to stable diffusion or LLMs.
I disagree. Over the last twenty years or so we have plenty examples of things they should have been regulated from the start that weren’t, and now it’s very difficult to do so. Every “gig economy” business for example.
Well fleshbags have to pay several years worth of salary to get their education, so by your comparison, Google's AI should too.
This is artificial pseudointelligence, not a person. It doesn't learn about or transform anything.
Im not the one anthropomorphising the technology here.
To take those statements seriously, you will need to:
Otherwise, I'll claim that "a person" is running exactly the same processes (neural networks, LLMs, hallucinations), and that calling these AIs "artificial paeudointelligences" is nothing else than dehumanizing a minority just because you feel threatened by them.
spoiler
asdfasdfsadfasfasdfSo works derived from other works should not be copyrightable? Oh wait, that's specifically allowed. As long as it's not being reproduced 1:1 then it falls under fair use. The argument that one should get paid for that is absurd. You can't copyright the idea of something. If that were the case then you could never write another poem or novel or short story because someone already did that and to do so would be "stealing." It would be ridiculous.
You have really meandered off the path of what I was talking about. But please, meander. It's interesting.
Well, that's what the person you replied to was saying. Essentially the "AI" is only reading the book, it's not copying the book.
I could rewrite the entire Lord of the rings series in my own words and it wouldn't be copyright infringement. I could sit there with the movies on repeat and the books all open for reference, I don't owe the rights holder anything in that case, as long as I'm but reproducing their work.
They’re just trolling. Feel free to block and ignore, it’s the best way of dealing with them until moderation is more reliable.
You gotta speak to your audience.
What is this person's audience? I'm not it. I guess they should have not picked me. LMAO. Poor kid. I just want to give the poor kid a huge hug, bake some Nestle Toll House cookies, and we can Netflix and chill to the whole Lord of the Rings plus the Hobbit. You know, because I have a heart, and this person needs this. Not that I'd enjoy any of it, I'd just be totally sacrificing my whole identity in favor, just to be helpful and all. LMAO
When you applied to join Beehaw you agreed to our standards, right? Please don't be a dick on here, OK?
I might have applied and i wasn't being a dick. you removed my comment because why? you think the lord of the rings was written for grown-ups or something? time to test you and see how outlandish you can be. i'll think twice about participating here. not a safe place for me when I haven't said anything wrong. fortunately for me, technology isn't my specialty. it's literature. so, say goodbye to me from your community. also, didn't appreciate your insult. I'm from the community you're from. the comment from the other person came from another instance. you have nothing to worry about. in technology you won't hear a peep from me, because I learned how this place works. humanities and cultural literacy is not appreciated here.
Yeah, sorry, you've been interacting in bad faith in this entire thread. We will not allow that kind of behaviour here.
Bizarre amount of assumptions in your ignorant wall of text post. I’m an attorney that’s worked in copyright for small artists and creators. In my current job i fight back against the tech giants and try to reign in specifically Google Amazon and Meta with consumer protection regulations. The fuck are you?
I'm a person that has the same clout around here as you. You're an anonymous rando unless you wish to advertise your legal services, put your name and pic up here for people to see and seek your services, which you are more than welcome to do. Until then, guess who I and you are? Nobody with an opinion. Welcome, Nobody, Attorney at Law. You just got irritated and you can't do shit about it.
I don’t need to prove anything to you, but your now multiple wall of text rambling screeds say nothing except ignorant insults. If you want to actually engage with the issue, be my guest. Refute what I’ve said, or something new, or idk, at least interesting. You’re just being irritating for irritating sake, otherwise. You don’t have the same “clout” (lmao what is this, recess?) because you haven’t actually brought anything to the discussion.
They are a troll with nothing but nonsense to say. Thanks for your contribution to the discussion it was a great way to frame the issue.