this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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Tobacco smoking, at least cigarettes, is quickly becoming de-normalized in some countries. In New Zealand they did a ban with current smokers grandfathered in essentially. In the US, there is more and more hostility to smoking.
People will cough and act dramatic when you smoke outside, you can't smoke inside of anywhere but bars anymore (and only some bars at that). Smoking is seen as low brow - typically mostly done by the lower rungs of society.
Zizek talks about this a bit and claims it's ideology. You are compelled to enjoy and be a hedonist - but never too much.
Personally, I quit smoking a long time ago but I think alcohol is much worse but doesn't get nearly the same treatment.
People can get sick from secondhand smoke. Yes, it's true that alcoholics can affect people around them, it's not as obvious as blowing smelly smoke in someone's face.
Typically only in cases where they are getting repeated exposure. For example children who live with parents who smoke inside. Someone breathing in cigarette smoke in passing in a well ventilated area is probably no more dangerous to their health than eating fast food or drinking soda.
I'm much more concerned with drunk driving and the thousands of annual deaths associated with that. Not to mention drunks beating their wives or getting into fights, etc
Smoking is bad, no doubt. But I really do think the societal rubberband snap is a strange effect we're having. Almost everyone used to smoke - now nobody does. It's very interesting.
Basically, we're in agreement. My point is that people see A blowing smoke into B's face and instantly notice it, while drunk driving deaths are a statistic they read about. It's not logical, but most human reactions aren't logical.
Good point.
I'm not convinced the alcohol is the determining factor in shitheads being shitheads. Domestic abusers wouldn't disappear if alcohol did. Drunk driving, maybe, but it would be replaced with other substances or forms of negligence.
Drinking responsibly does have short term social and mental benefits when used responsibly, and less severe long-term health issues.
I'm not advocating for alcohol consumption by any means, but it seems obvious to me why it's viewed more positively than smoking. It helps people enjoy life. Smoking doesn't, really.
Alcohol causes increase of domestic violence. You're right in that there exists a certain number of shitheads regardless of alcohol. But alcohol reduces inhibitions. While sober, they may just yell at their wife. Drunk, they hit them. This is a well-studied effect.
And sure, alcohol can act as a social lubricant and the majority of people who use it don't commit violence.
But amplified over the whole population we're talking about tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people affected by alcohol related abuse - depending how you define abuse.
As for positive from cigarettes, it can act as a mild antidepressant and mild stimulant. Helps you focus. Something like 80-90% of schizophrenics smoke. They think it's because it acts as sort of a self-medication.
It also helps during the process of quitting other substances. For example rehabs give away free cigarettes and vapes.
Having said all this, I'm not trying to start a crusade against alcohol. It's perfectly natural to use. And the government shouldn't ban it - that's stupid for a number of reasons. Philosophical to practical.
But I'm just saying people are very negative to smoking and positive to Marijuana and alcohol when statistically speaking alcohol does a lot more damage
About 60% cases of violence where the police has to intervene have to do with alcohol.
The thing is that drinking it looks innocent, since you have to drink (water) in order to stay alive. But alcohol is literal poison.
See my other commnets in this thread.
Also, we've tried alcohol prohibition and the results were worse.
Too true. That makes me worry about tobacco prohibition as well. And just when the world is starting to move on from cannabis prohibition, it seems like we really need to keep making this mistake eh
And modern society loves to do nothing more than to punch down.
I like when people start repeating thoughtless rhetoric around working class copes, but only because it tells me who to avoid and ignore. I like smoke-free restaurants, too, but I don't feel the urge to be a white knight on a crusade about how the poor & stressed are subhuman. Yet some people are all about that crusade.