this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
52 points (78.9% liked)

Technology

33632 readers
222 users here now

This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.


Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.


Rules:

1: All Lemmy rules apply

2: Do not post low effort posts

3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff

4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.

5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)

6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist

7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Some argue that bots should be entitled to ingest any content they see, because people can.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That's just ridiculous imo, it seems like they're afraid of the idea that maybe we're just automata with a different set of random inputs and flaws. And to me, that's the kind of idea that the problem of consciousness is trying to explore.

But if you just say, "no, that's off limits," that's not particularly helpful. Science can give us a lot of insight into how thoughts work, how people react vs other organisms to the same stimuli, etc. It can be studied, and we can use the results of those studies to reason about the nature of consciousness. We can categorize life by their sophistication, and we can make inferences about the experiences each category of life have.

So I think it's absolutely a problem that can and should be studied and reasoned about. Though I can see how that idea can be uncomfortable.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well, it's a "problem" for philosophers. I don't think it's a "problem" for neurology or hard science, that's the only point I was trying to make.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ah, I thought you were talking about philosophy.

But it's still relevant for neuroscience since we need to understand how brain chemistry impacts the mind to create effective treatments. So not knowing how the mind works is a problem that may limit our ability to solve problems. But there's plenty we can and have done without understanding where consciousness comes from.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

understanding where consciousness comes from

Again, to be clear, I don't think this is a fundamentally scientific question.

If you show a philosopher how a rose activates the retina and sends signals to the brain, you'll get a response like, "sure, but when I say the subjective experience of a rose, I mean what the mind does when it experiences a rose"...

If you show a philosopher the retinal signals activate the optical processing capabilities of the brain, you'll get "sure, but when I say the subjective experience of a rose, I mean what the mind does when it experiences a rose"...

If you show a philosopher how the appearance of a rose consistently activates certain clusters of neurons and glial cells that are always activated when someone sees a rose, you'll get a response "sure, but when I say the subjective experience of a rose, I mean what the mind does when it experiences a rose"...

Show the philosopher that the same region of the brain is excited when the person smells a rose or reads the word "rose", and they'll say, "sure, but when I say the subjective experience of a rose, I mean what the mind does when it experiences a rose"...

To the philosopher, they have posed a question about "what it's like to experience a rose", and I suggest that NO answer will satisfy them, because they're not really asking a scientific question. They're looking for, as the SEP puts it, an "intuitively satisfying way how phenomenal or 'what it's like' consciousness might arise from physical or neural processes in the brain". But, science isn't under any obligation to provide an inituitive, easy-to-understand answer. The assemblage of brain & nerve functions that are fired when a living being experiences a phenomenon are the answer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Current science does a pretty good job of explaining the what, and sometimes the how. But it doesn't do a good job of explaining the "why", or in other words, why do we like certain experiences and dislike others?

There's also a gap in explaining how much our consciousness contributes to observable behavior. Like why do some people feel stress when others might feel excitement by the same stimuli? How much of behavior is explained by chemical processes in the brain, and how much relies on "personality"?

Some of that is closer to science, and some is closer to philosophy, but I do think science has a role to play in helping to guide philosophical thought.