this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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The holodomor narrative surrounding the ussr wide famine of 32-33 was literal nazi propaganda from open nazi collaborators and was used as a justification for the mass murder of jews in Eastern Europe during the holocaust.
It was debunked in the literal 1930s in the US and now it re-emerges like a zombie during an era where fascism is on the rise. Even anticommunist academics like Applebaum, Davies, and Conquest say it wasn't a genocide.
What a crock of shit. Practically every historian says it was caused by soviet policy. The only debate that occurs if whether it was due to stupidity or intentional genocide.
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I could keep going. Gonna tell me how the Holocaust was a lie too?
Literally none of your sources definitively claim it was a genocide except the university of Minnesota one which cites Davies and Applebaum who later says it wasn't.
Also lol, you use Wikipedia, a random university of Minnesota webpage, KellogInsight, and I dont even know where you got your last source but it literally cites Wheatcroft and Davies amongst others who do not argue it was a genocide after examining the soviet archives.
No, the holocaust is a well documented historical fact, unlike the holodomor. The soviet wide famine of 1932 and 33 is a well documented historical fact, it is also not considered a genocide by mainstream anticommunist historians, who argue to what extent soviet policies and which policies worsened the famine.
Also ironic that you ask "do you also deny the holocaust" given the holodomor myth was used as justification to kill Jewish people during the holocaust and was later used as justification for collaboration with the holocaust.
Here is a well respected Jewish historian and activist on it:
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
Wow the lengths commies go to deny actual genocide.
We all know communism is an ideology strictly for the uneducated and violent, why try so hard to make it seem like something else? The countless sexual and ethnic minorities murdered by communism due to its inherent hateful nature is something only the nazis on the other end of the fascism-spectrum rivaled.
The lengths liberals will to go to buy into fascist atrocity propaganda that was used as justification for the mass slaughter of Jewish people by nazis and nazi collaborators
You're literally doing fascist propaganda. Here is a liberal Jewish holocaust historian and activist writing on it:
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
Fascists kill minorities, wow, who would've thought. It's amazing how many commies pretend to label themselves as anti racist and pro trans rights, yet just so happen to advocate for an ideology based on murdering people on the basis of their ethnicity and sexual/gender orientation. Coincidence don't you think?
Communist countries have historically been less violent to minorities than bourgeois democracies.
Also read the fucking Jewish holocaust scholar's writing and absorb it for a second.
This is simply not true. Every communist regime in history has started off with a systematic slaughter of minorities.
Started off? Which minority was slaughtered in Cuba? What about Korea? How about Afghanistan? China? Vietnam? The USSR? I mean at the start. The USSR did do some legitimately bad things to minorities (particularly German, polish, and Korean) in the lead up to and during ww2) but that was later on and those paled in comparison to the crimes of their capitalist contemporaries.
I think you're talking out your ass.
Please read upon actual history before pretending to know any of it. Every nation you mentioned slaughtered their minorities, it is intrinsic to the ideology, a core foundation. Communism without unchecked violence, aggression and ethnic cleansing isn't communism.
Also loving the token Whataboutism™ at the end, sign of a true tankie lmao, y-y-yes all communist nations have cleaned off their trans folk b-b-but there are some liberal nations too that did it, even though liberalism is the only ideology that has the capability to support a non-violent society lmao get fucked transphobe.
Could you give me a recommendation on history books that go over the slaughter of minorities in Cuba, Vietnam, and Korea then? Since you know so much about it.
Oh, that is what I thought. Have you considered actually talking to Cubans, either people who live there or cuban immigrants who arent aggrieved about their grandpa's plantation?
Fuck I gotta tell my local commune that they aren't really communist
Fallacy fallacy. If we are judging ideologies on how many atrocities they commit, you have to judge them against other ideologies.
Lol 20 million people die a year of starvation or lack of clean water under liberal hegemony.
The archetypal liberal state shoots thousands of black men a year, and creates conditions that mean 40 percent of homeless youth are lgbt. It has the largest prison system in history, and has killed millions of civilians in wars of aggression over the last 20 years. You're projecting the crimes of capitalism onto communism, consider criticizing communism for what it actually did wrong.