this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2023
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it was an illegitimate referendum.
Was it? According to who? The people who have been selling artillery shells to drop on the people of Luhansk for over nine years? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
https://mronline.org/2022/12/02/the-narrative-of-sham-elections/
"Well organized" doesnt mean legitimate. The referendum was organized without the consent of the legitimate government of Ukraine, was rightfully boycotted by Ukrainians, was scoped beyond the occupied areas and included non residents shipped in from russia.
And let's not forget the polling. Over 94% voter turnout (or an illicit vote) and 98% voting for annexation? You can't even get 80% of people to vote for "don't shoot yourself in the face" and we're supposed to believe the annexation vote was near-unanimous?
The propagandists really should've made up a number closer to 60% with 85% turnout, enough that a majority of the population could be said to have voted for annexation, while still being believable.
Exactly
A couped government isn't legitimate.
a coup, by definition, is “a sudden, violent, and unlawful seizure of power from a government.” Yanukovych was removed after losing the confidence of both the people and his party through legal processes already afforded to the Ukrainian legislature. Enough of his party defected to the opposition to the point where he no longer commanded a majority.
Please educate yourself on the Maidan coup:
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea https://mronline.org/2022/07/06/anatomy-of-a-coup/
If you respond with contradicting sources, please check first if they're funded by NED or similar orgs so I don't have to do that for you. Appreciate!
What part or parts of my comment are you specifically taking issue with?
Yanukovych fled to a country that was actively at the same time invading Ukraine derelicting his duties as President.
The Ukrainian legislature then voted to remove him
At which point an election was held and a new president was elected
Thanks for clearing that up, now I understand the point you were raising.
So you support Turkey over the Kurds, right? Given that they had a well-organized Declaration of Independence and autonomy, without the consent of the legitimate government in Turkey.
I don't know enough about that conflict to form an opinion on it
Then please tell me how a region under genocidal siege from the very state it is internationally recognized to be a part of should legitimately break away and establish its own sovereignty.
That's a straw man, because in this case they weren't under genocidal siege by the state it is internationally recognized to be a part of
It's called perestroika
How is that relevant? The topic at hand is sovereignty and what the supposed correct way to go about achieving it is, not shitty economic liberalization.
I didn't mean the economic reform, but the re-ordering of the states.
If you'd like parts of a country that is overbearing to split off and become countries of their own, that's quite an effective method, wouldn't you say?
Ukraine was, and remains, at war with separatist factions fomented by Russia. If Russia didn't want a war in Donbas, they shouldn't have started a war there
Russia started a war in 2014?
Whether or not the separatist faction is fomented by a foreign power, what gives Ukraine the right to shell them for nearly a decade on end, make their language and culture illegal, and exclude them from the public sphere? In early 2022 Ukraine was preparing for military action on Donbas, to essentially remove all remaining dissenters.
I think Ukraine, under direction of its NATO puppeteers, has done a great job of fomenting separatism in culturally Russian minorities present in Ukraine all on their own.
Yes. Russia invaded and annexed Crimea which is a part of ukraine. It also provided arms and boots on the ground to separatist movements in the Donbas
They are a hostile force occupying Ukrainian land, committing human rights abuses against Ukrainians living in the Donbas.
The Russian language was not, nor has it ever been, banned. The Ukrainian parliament attempted to repeal a law that granted minority languages such as Russian regional status but it was vetoed by the then president of Ukraine. It’s wasn’t until 2018 that the law was deemed to be unconstitutional but even then, neither the Russian language, nor its culture was banned
Ukraine has been investing heavily in its defense capabilities since it was invaded in 2014 by a hostile foreign power. If there was ever a good reason to build up a military, that's it