GWM specifies a melee attack iirc
this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
75 points (87.1% liked)
RPGMemes
9731 readers
611 users here now
Humor, jokes, memes about TTRPGs
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
The meme community hasn't read the rules
RAR, Rules As (mis)Remembered
But sharp shooter doesn't specify a ranged attack... right? Right?
(My source is wikidot)
even on that wiki it states that you need to make a ranged weapon attack. THREE TIMES, infact the same amount GWM states that it needs a melee weapon attack.
I'm one to rule with intent, and would rule against using it, but at the same time, it does say
" Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If that attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage."
Mhm yeah, but if you attack with a ranged weapon in melee, its no longer an attack with a ranged weapon as you use it as an improvised weapon instead.
Ah, the weapon changes type depending how it's used, I'll take that.
Correct. It says an attack with a ranged weapon.
It does specify ranged weapon attack.
You’re correct. It uses “melee attack” for everything, so a crossbow would be excluded. Unless maybe you’re using the crossbow as an improvised weapon and bashing the enemy over the head with it? But then Sharpshooter wouldn’t apply, because it specifies “ranged weapon attack” and hitting someone with a melee attack wouldn’t be ranged.
Hitting someone with a melee attack is a range of 1m!
This doesn't really work as far as I can tell, RAW or RAI. While it is the case that in theory a Melee Attack with a Heavy Ranged Weapon would satisfy both criteria, there is no weapon that can normally perform such an attack, as far as I'm aware. Using a Heavy Crossbow or a Longbow to make a Melee Attack would be attacking with an Improvised Melee Weapon, which is both not a Ranged Weapon and does not have the Heavy property, so neither Feat would be useful.
If we are being generous we could say that attacking with a Heavy Crossbow would be like a Club and a Longbow would be like a Staff, and per the Improvised Weapons rules we could use those weapon stats for our Improvised Weapon, however, note that neither of these have the Heavy property, so you would be unable to use either Feat in this case as well. (The Heavy property, particularly on Ranged Weapons, seems to be not about the weight of the weapon (an intrinsic property of the thing), but about the strength required to attack with such a weapon in it's intended manner. In this way it would make sense that neither Feat would work.)
Heavy Crossbow
Heavy Crossbow
The DM omnirule applies: If it breaks the game, then no, just no. But if it merely makes the game more ridiculous without giving the DM a splitting headache or driving players away from the table, allow it.
I suspect something like this would trigger the headache clause, and if I were DM I'd probably ask the player to pick which one he would rather it apply to, but not both.
okay but if you're using the crossbow as a melee weapon does it still count as ranged?
(also this is what I hate about the wargaming origins of most DnD systems, and have been really enjoying the PBTA derived Matryoshka I want my game to be more about collaborative storytelling and roleplaying and a GM that can make on the fly decisions as to what makes sense with the rulebook more as a basic outline than concrete mechanical rules like we're playing a CRPG but with pen and paper)
PHB says "attack with a ranged weapon" which is not necessarily a ranged attack.
It just feels like rules lawyering and focusing on semantics, when the intent is clear.
Also I get why it is a meme but I stand by my pedantry.
Of course it is, that’s the joke - as explained by the headline.
idk what those acronyms mean.
RAW = Rules as Written
RAI = Rules as Intended
It's an improvised melee weapon when you smack someone with it because you aren't using the weapon as designed.
This is one of those situations where the context is clear but they switched the wording to be about the weapon in the context of proficiency for the third bullet point. Ranged attack description, ranged attack for first two bullet points, and then ranged weapon for the third.
So if you ignore all the context and expect them to repeat "ranged weapon making a ranged attack" in every single sentence then yes, it literally says ranged weapon in the third bullet and not ranged attack.
Of course. It is a joke, but also a valid commentary on the weakness of WotC’s meta rules system. This is an area Paizo excels at.
I have to say that so many of the complaints about WotC rules writing come down to willfully ignoring context and similar phrasing. Yes, they should be more consistent and clear and mot name general ranged feats with weapon specific names or contradict themselves in their rules "clarifications."
A sentence out of context is not the gotcha that people seem to think it is though, and that joke is old and played out.
No they don't, they just add a greater number of misinterpretable rules.
What's GWM?
Great Weapon Master
Thank you much