The comma, the horror! Couldn't help but focus on that myself!

I spent two months or so travelling around the north and south islands and barely saw any sheep! Far more cows strangely. I didn't feel like I had missed anything and wasn't actively looking gor them, but it was surprising!

I certainly agree that a fact simply is, noting your lack of belief, however communication is only possible through description so I suspect some somantics here. My point was that within an arguement, opinions can be extrapolated from known facts to suggest unkown/unproven facts, if only so to the individuals involved. Essentially this is that basis of any argument - to exchange ideas/possibilities etc to reach the ultimate goal of determining what is a fact.

Though, as you say, many discussions and arguments, especially in a casual scenario, are taken as exercises in 'winning' rather than with the aforementioned aim. I agree this is frustrating and understand your stance.

Re respect. If you respect a person (your approach being much the same as my own), does that not preculde that you respect what they say?, at least in most instances, even if they are mistaken or incorrect? Though I think there may be two points here, one re emotional beliefs & one re fact-based beliefs. The latter being more what I've been refering to. Emotional beliefs are much closer to pure opinion than facts.

I don't think in terms of respect about something like this as this leans towards some kind of snobbery or predudice. Either I agree or don't. Regardless of any perceived level of knowledge or intelligence behind an argument, I'll respond as a point of advancing shared knowledge rather than trying to 'win'.

Unfortunately there are many subjects where all the facts aren't known, therefore opinions must be discussed to advance the understanding and ultimately help to establish future facts. Also, one person's believed facts may be a misunderstanding, for example, hence why discussions and arguments may happen.

As such, there is (nearly) always a point to it!