this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023
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Technology

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[–] [email protected] 87 points 11 months ago (1 children)

my HP version won't let me read a book without replacing the Cyan e-ink

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

No, it's fine. The text is black. Can it display just the black?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)

HP being like: ... and I took that very personally

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Hahahaha! Wait till hp makes these, and charges you a subscription to display anything.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

"No fuck you, low on cyan"

[–] [email protected] 71 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I spend my days in emacs and terminal emulators and I want this very badly in a laptop form factor so I can comfortably work outside.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah I'm really surprised they didn't go with a laptop screen rather than a monitor designed to be left in a fixed place! Whoever's first to market with a good laptop e-ink display is going to rake it in.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

I suspect that it’s simpler to make a standalone display as proof of concept. If it’s popular enough, laptops could follow. This monitor will be great for film sets & videos. No flicker!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Framework should offer an e-ink display as a component you can drop in to their laptops.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It's already possible, with a remarkable 2 and a special vnc client https://github.com/matteodelabre/vnsee. Though I have not tried it yet, it looks great, but the screen is way smaller than an usual pc monitor

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I have a Onyx Boox Max, an A4 b/w e-ink device. I can't use that as a screen, due to too low refresh rate. Writing on it with it's pen is great, but typing on it is horrible. The slight delay breaks the usability.

I don't know how that stacks against the remarkable 2.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Someone would make a killing of they created an easy to use home dashboard with an eink display. Low power, 8x11, customizable with Android apps. Refreshes once a minute. Has weather and traffic and calendar in the morning, and displays photos in the afternoon.
LCDs are terrible in terms of power consumption. But a big, slow eink would be great.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago

“I own the only patent - I will license it for just $10/square inch.”

And that’s a short story about how eInk never got commercialized.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I'm not so sure, I think it would go the way of smart speakers - a solution without much of a problem to solve

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You say that as though people aren't buying the shit out of them

I agree it's kind of a dumb product, but people buy the shit out of smart speakers. Their market size in 2022 was 10.8 billion USD and rising every year.

I could absolutely see a consumer driven home wall panel selling like crazy - I have a HA driven wall panel at my house and every guest thinks it's the coolest thing and asks where they can get one

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

What's an ha driven panel?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Sorry, Home Assistant - it's a self hosted home automation platform.

Supports practically every smart device out there, can be totally self hosted, and has a great framework for building home automation dashboards for phones and tablets

I've got an instance running on my network and a few cheap Fire tablets running the HA app as wall panels mounted around my house, they display the weather and family photos by default, but when you touch them they have controls for all our smart lights, thermostat, etc

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Phones kind of suck for the 'at a glance' function.

  • Widgets take up too much room on the home screen, so you have to swipe over to it to see it.
  • once you're there, you're tempted to dive in to look at emails or tweets or whatever else. There's a whole smartphone detox market that's out there, focusing on dumb phones and escaping attention traps.
  • Not everyone in the house (e.g., kids) should be looking at a phone regularly.
  • I don't have my phone with me when I'm walking back and forth getting ready. A quick glance is faster than a grab, unlock, swipe, read pattern.

Smart home dashboards also seem like a perfect fit with this. A low power, regular refreshing, touch sensitive controlled? That could hang on a wall with a battery? Sounds great.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

This would be great for those of us with Home Assistant or other home automation setups. Still not a huge market, but a market none the less.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I build a digital picture frame using an 8-color e-ink display and a pi pico.

It works great within its limitations, but the limitations are still pretty big

  • 8 colors is pretty limited, especially when it's a specific 8 colors (not just 8 max).
  • Refresh times are slow
  • The pico memory and storage are limited
  • Due to the above, mine ran in two cycles with a reboot between to clear memory. One to pull images from my website and another to cycle through existing pictures until it needs to grab more
  • Images needed to be converted to the appropriate size+ 8-color palette and dithered etc beforehand into a format the pico can read (hence then being on my website where they were reduced to an uncompressed palletized BMP)

Obviously a commercial product could probably do better, or a better screen, but faster-refresh or higher-color tends to jump in price quickly.

Still, it was pretty cool to have a device that would not need power to persist images, and used only a little during the process of loading new ones so could be powered by battery/solar

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I’ve thought of doing something similar, the other fun part is that you could stash a big battery behind the display and run the E-ink on a super slow refresh rate since they only use power to refresh. I wish E-ink wasn’t so ridiculously expensive. This monitor would be perfect if it weren’t $1200.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

This is the one I got. It's not terribly expensive but yeah it does have limitations in terms of colors and refresh times

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

You're on the same wavelength as me. My ideal product is an e-ink display to stick in the kitchen or some other high traffic area to display relevant family information and with touch controls to do some fairly basic things like toggle digital switches/dials or just switch to alternative dashboards. If I could find a touch-enabled e-ink display that's a good size but not stupid expensive (keeping in mind this is absolutely a luxury item so I'm not looking to shell out any significant volume of monies on the thing), I could attach one to a Pi and make one myself.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Sounds cool until you realize that you’d have to turn on the lights to read it at night.

If only there wAs soMe technOLogy out thEre already Doing that…

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think a 27x40 inch movie poster size would be awesome to line the walls of a home theater. Have posters on rotation. Similarly have some posted for artwork. Basically digital picture frames but not lcd/led driven. I’m sure the quality is low now, but once color accuracy is fine tuned, would be some cool niche uses.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So LED screens are basically just 25 inc lamps?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

All I know is that if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bike.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

For anyone that does mostly office work/paperwork, yes.

For everyone else, not so much. The refresh on eink displays is often orders if magnitude longer than with traditional displays, so forget watching YouTube or something, on a display like this.

Almost every display in existence does 60+ Hz. This is required for light emitting displays, since humans generally see 60Hz flickers of light as solid light (consistently on), so they have to run at that frequency to produce an image that doesn't look like it's flickering on and off.

With eink, it's only reflecting light, not emitting it, so update times can be and are, a lot slower. Due to the mechanism that's bringing the relevant pigments to the surface, which isn't fast, you'll see these displays measured more in seconds per frame than frames per second. Partial updates of the screen can be done much faster, but full frame updates can take several seconds. Eg, adding one more character (while typing a document), is a quick update and can happen many times per second on most eink displays, changing the whole screen, which happens often in video content, takes 1+ second(s) to complete.

So for the office drones that deal with email and text files all day, this is great. For any media content including TV, movies and video games, this is utterly useless.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Thank you for the detailed response :)

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The title really grinds my gears... "New eInk display is basically like a bigger version of another eInk display"...

[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago (1 children)

E-ink technology uses some pretty fascinating chemistry to display more natural paper-like on-screen textures as opposed to regular digital Word documents and PDFs.

I have a feeling this author might just be fucking stupid.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Wait... Is this... Like that kindle thong mayhaps? Me am the smartyballs thinkerpersen!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

This is the tech I've been waiting for

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Slap a battery in it a call it an e-newspaper

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would seriously kill for an e-newspaper ngl

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I've been waiting for a flexible, two page, tabloid sized e-newspaper for, like, 20 years now.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (8 children)

It's not the blue emitting light that causes eyestrain on OLEDs, it's the low frequency pwm used to control brightness. Basically all the pixels turn on and off a few hundred times a second, not slow enough for your brain to consciously notice it, but fast enough for your eyes to react to what is in effect a strobelight right in front of your face. That is how dimming works on an OLED.

You end up with devices that still cause headaches and dizziness because they flicker in this manner, but are "eyesafe certified" because they filter out the blue light right before bed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Eventually, there will something like a 1000 Hz monitor. At some point, it will refresh too fast for the brain to register any difference.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

OLED TVs and desktop monitors don't use pwm, though they do have very slight brightness dips every refresh.

Afaik laptop and phone OLEDs do use (low frequency) pwm.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Does it have a frame rate of like 5? I can’t see any info in the article abt it

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The video makes it look reasonable. I could see this being good for coding work - soothing and still fast enough. But not for the $2000+ they'll be charging.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

The issue I had with using it for code is that the scrolling in the video seemed pretty bad, which is pretty essential for it. Would love an e ink monitor dedicated to code/terminals, so I'll be waiting to grab one when the frame rate's a bit better. Also, in some of the footage of them writing in Word looks like there's a decent amount of burn-in. I'd do it for $2k today if it had better frame rate for scrolling/typing and much less burn-in.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I have been wanting one of these things for so fucking long. I can't wait!

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