this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/straw-poll-on-your-preferences-about-opt-in-opt-out-for-possible-data-collection/85675/2

This poll is a bit hard to understand but essentially you could vote for multiple options, the highest opt-out option is at 26%, meaning 74% of people oppose this idea.

The original proposal is at 16%, for a jarring 84% disapproval rate.

Despite overwhelming negative feedback, Red Hat is currently drafting a revised proposal.

But what about Red Hat?

This is the link to the proposal: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Telemetry#Privacy-preserving_Telemetry_for_Fedora_Workstation

These parts are all interesting and contradict some people who argue Red Hat has no hand in this issue:

Name: Michael Catanzaro Email: <mcatanzaro@redhat.com>

and

The Red Hat Display Systems Team (which develops the desktop) proposes to enable limited data collection of anonymous Fedora Workstation usage metrics.

and

It is Fedora Legal's obligation to ensure our data collection complies with legal requirements in the jurisdictions in which Red Hat operates

and

Occasionally, Red Hat might need to collect specific metrics to justify additional time spent on contributing to Fedora or additional investment in Fedora.

The quotes above were handpicked. There are 7 matches for "Red Hat" in the link above, not counting the email address.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Eh, i don't consider this true "opt out" telemetry. It won't collect any info until you explicitly finish the initial setup screen, where there's a toggle box to opt out of telemetry. It's not like it's collecting this info in the background where uninformed users are unaware of their data being sent, they were shown the option during the setup screen. I don't see what the problem is here.

For reference, this is the proposed option during the initial setup screen

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

IMO it's a bad thing if this doesn't get added. FOSS in general has very limited resources, knowing what to work on most urgently will help massively to tackle the most urgent issues

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Opt out is not acceptable under any circumstances. It's not your data. It's your users'.

Sending a single bit back without an explicit, uncoerced opt in should be illegal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The problem with opt-in is that it isn't a good way to get a good sample size. It's very self-selecting. There are ways of collecting telemetry while being privacy-respecting, but whether RedHat is properly anonymizing this user data is a different matter.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It doesn't matter what the tradeoffs are. The data does not and cannot belong to you.

There is no way of collecting telemetry while respecting privacy*. The pure fact that you're collecting anything the user didn't explicitly consent to is an unacceptable violation. Anonymization doesn't mean you aren't taking data that isn't yours.

*edit: without opt in. The acceptable way to do it is to make your ask, make the user make one choice or the other, and respect it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I don't care. We don't do deceptive dark patterns in FOSS.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

we are doing just fine without....now all of the sudden its a necessity? i call bullshit

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Redhat is honestly turning into bizarro Google. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

It's IBM now.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just make it opt in, what's the big problem?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The problem in opt in telemetry is it's basically useless and is about the same as doing a poll, it over-represents a tiny minority of all users

This explains it better than I can: https://theevilskeleton.gitlab.io/2023/07/16/opt-in-telemetry-and-asking-users-for-feedback-may-not-work-in-practice.html

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

I don't buy this excuse. Just make it "opt", meaning neither option is the default. You have to choose "Yes, contribute diagnostic and bug data to Fedora (recommended)" or "No, keep my data private" before you can continue. Put a big "more info" link to documentation on what is collected, when, and who gets it, and how it's used.

It somewhat under-represents those who value privacy most and over-represents those who want to help Fedora with their usage data, but I argue that's a good thing.