this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
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Privacy

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Does anyone else feel as if it's over when it comes to really owning your own things?

As of now:

  • You don't have the option of having a phone with decent specs and replaceable parts
  • You have to have really good knowledge in tech to have private services that are on par with what the big companies offer
  • You have to put up with annoying compatibility issues if you install a custom ROM on your android phone
  • You cannot escape apps preventing you from using them if you root your device
  • Cars are becoming SaaS bullcrap
  • Everything is going for a subscription model in general

And now Google is attempting to implement DRM on websites. If that goes through, Firefox is going to be relegated to privacy conscious websites (there aren't many of those). At this point, why even bother? Why do I go to great lengths at protecting my privacy if it means that I can't use most services I want?

It sucks because the obvious solution is for people to move away from these bullshit companies and show that they actually care about their privacy. Even more important is to actually PAY for services they like instead of relying on free stuff. I'm not optimistic not just because the non privacy conscious side is lazy, but because my side is greedy. I mean one of the most popular communities on lemmy is "piracy" which makes it all the more reasonable for companies not to listen to privacy conscious people.

I wouldn't say that this is the endgame but in this trajectory, privacy is gone before 2030.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

No need to be down!

  • Fairphone exists and has just expanded business into the USA

  • Privacy is hard not because it's difficult, but because we like free shit (free email addresses, free cloud storage, free apps, free news, free everything!). If you pay for your stuff, privacy becomes a lot easier!

  • ROM quality depends on your make and model, and the volunteer work put into it. You can buy phones that fit your needs (i.e. /e/ or Pixels reported compatible with GrapheneOS) and you'll have little to no compatibility issues.

  • Magisk and that one magical fix module have prevented apps from breaking for me! If apps refuse to let you use them, you can always use different apps!

  • I don't like the SaaS bullshit in cars, but they give you a ton of hardware for free and all you need to do is read the manual and apply power to the right pins to get heated seats for free! With the right attitude, this crap is making your features cheaper!

  • You rarely need to pay subscriptions for everything. Subscriptions are often cheaper and easier, but media is still available in physical form, software is usually sold (for more money) with permanent options, and car shit can be bought off beforehand.

The real problem is that people want privacy but they also like getting discounts or free stuff subsidised hy their data. Everyone wants YouTube, nobody wants ads, nobody wants to pay for YouTube premium. Everyone wants music, nobody wants to buy CDs, nobody wants to buy MP3s, and all that's left is subscriptions.

There are things you can't avoid (i.e. American ISPs selling your location history to bounty hunters and partnering up with advertisers) but there are LOADS of options out there that will serve you perfectly fine if you're willing to pay the money companies would've earned off you by selling your data.

DRM in websites has already existed for years at this point, it's why Netflix is allowed to give you HD video by the copyright holders. Google take on remote attestation sucks (but I think it beats the implementation Apple has built into current versions of Safari) but in the end it'll be your own choices that determine if this becomes a problem or not. Don't visit the websites that enforce this crap and, if enough people care, things will change for the better.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Let me just spare a few dollars for privacy after paying for rent & groceries in my third world country currency.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Fairphone exists

As someone who has a Fairphone 3: they destroyed any trust I had in them the moment the FP4 came without headphone jack and with a different form factor. I thought that their idea would be that each module could be upgraded independently. That's what would make their offering truly innovative and eco-friendly. By departing from that, they simply became a manufacturer of overpriced phones with slightly better ethics.

ROM quality depends on your make and model,

I am using /e/OS since when I got the FP (what, 3 years ago?) and to this day the applications that need GPS are completely unreliable. I gave up on using bikesharing systems here because their apps simply fail all the time to get my location.

but they give you a ton of hardware for free

It's not free. There is no marginal cost in what they are doing. This is all a cash grab and an attempt to further segment the market.

Everyone wants music, nobody wants to buy CDs, nobody wants to buy MP3s, and all that’s left is subscriptions.

If the lion share of music revenue went to artists, you can bet that more people would pay for it. But we know for years that this is not the case. Same for movies.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't know anything about Fair phone's modules and uogradeability, all I know is that you can buy replacement parts which is better than most other brands.

I know /e/ is far from perfect (they've lagged behind for years) but I don't believe that's the OS FF themselves support either. I just know it comes closest in terms of integration compared to stock Android. How well it works differs strongly per device, some work perfectly out of the box while others have nonfunctional hardware.

The cost of most car features is either upfront anyway (software stuff) or very minor (seat warmers). Sure, they sell you seat warmers for a couple grand or a major monthly fee, but resistive heaters really don't cost all that much. There's maybe $50 of hardware in a car that they will charge you ten times as much for if you buy the feature. I'm pretty sure they're actually saving money by simplifying their supply lines and factory processes to just make a single type of chair.

I don't think most people care all that much about artists. Most people I know just go to Youtube or Spotify because it's free and easy. However, if you think artists get little money for CDs, you'll be shocked to see the streaming situation. Streaming pays out MUCH less compared to physical media. If you want to support artists, go to their concerts, that's where they rack in their cash.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You will forever have these feelings, if you have a better world than the status quo in mind. Be careful to not be overwhelmed by them, if you suffer too much long term you could give up or become a cynic. Nothing is perfect, we strive to make better systems (and smartphones).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah I guess it never really was perfect. But this one really caught me off guard since I took it for granted that the web is more free than the walled gardens that Google and Apple make. But the FOSS community is making some cool stuff these days that we gotta focus on.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

“Just pretend this dystopia is a utopia and you’ll be fine!”

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

No just don't pretend we live in a dystopia, things could be worse. Could be better as well though...

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Nuance status: out the window

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The walls of the cyberpunk dystopia are being built up around us

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Yes, we need to pass laws that prevent companies from blocking access to their services on the basis of using privacy tools. Basically apps should be able to run on any customised client device and they should only legally able to say "no" if my session is clearly demonstrating malicious interactions.

We need better consumer protection laws.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It sucks because the obvious solution is for people to move away from these bullshit companies and show that they actually care about their privacy.

They don't. People don't care, don't understand, and don't care that they don't understand. The average person is oblivious of the way the world around them works, and they're okay with that. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

God bless the hackers, crackers, reverse engineers, and disrupters. Pray they help keep you free of too much pain.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

God bless the hackers, crackers, reverse engineers, and disrupters. Pray they help keep you free of too much pain.

That's delusional. As soon as more and more parts of software are run remotely on proprietary hard- & software there will be nothing to hack or crack. Sure, someone could reverse engineer it, but there aren't enough hobbyists in the world to rewrite all this software.

We see this more and more in gaming... it used to be the case that they just gave you the software to run your own game in multiplayer setups, nowadays, if they shut off the servers, the game is dead (unless, someone releases a very wonky, extremely buggy, barely usable, reverse engineered server with 10% of the features some time down the line)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It comes in cycles. 20 years ago, it was a struggle to maintain your digital freedom. 10 years ago, when everyone was basking in free software and low interest rates, it was quite easy. The industry is contracting again, so it's going to be harder to do so while using commercial offerings. But we will find ways and the cycle will repeat.

Persist.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What was the struggle 20 years ago?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ughhh long story...

It was the height of the Desktop era. Everything ran locally, and that meant Windows. OS X just got started. Everyone was predicting smartphones, but they were a decade out (note time travellers: drop the fucking stylus). Linux was unbelievably shit. Very few drivers, you had to carefully pick your hardware. External devices were a luxury. Printing mostly didn't work, USB printing was bragging rights. You had to buy modems with a hardware DAC, else it was done in the driver which worked only on Windows. GTK kinda just went from v1 to v2, everything looked 10 years outdated, and even Firefox had glitchy UI on Linux. If you could insert a CD and get it to show up without manually mounting, you were staring into the future.

The Web was on hold, Microsoft having won the browsers wars pt. 1, and proceeding to stall with Internet Explorer 6, correctly predicting that browsers would compete with their hegemony in the client space. There were no services: GMail and Youtube were just getting started. You ran local programs, and there were barely any for Linux. The choice was between booting Windows and dicking with cracks from Astalavista, and booting Linux to rice your E16, then staring at it. General productivity software was almost non-existent — you had a dozen compilers and interpreters instead. Where I'm from, banking required desktop software which required windows, not to mention smart cards, which also required windows.

This was made worse by the proprietary formats, which were the key to maintaining stranglehold. Everyone was emailing .docs around, which you could sometimes open with Abiword or maybe dump just the text and Antiword. Even the PDF viewers were a bit crap. Had to submit a report? You probably booted Windows in a virtual machine to use Office, and the CPU was yet to add instructions helping with that. Media was even worse; everything was MPEG and required royalties. LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder because it wasn't allowed to be. RIAA/MPAA were fighting hard to keep you buying physical shit. Meanwhile, you could only play Tux Racer and Nethack.

Around that time, Microsoft was about to introduce Palladium, an attestation chain rooted in hardware. Everyone was despairing about the same future: in 3-5 years, Microsoft would use it to pull in and segregate an increasing portion of the Internet, until the whole became their walled garden. Hope that sounds familiar.


Meanwhile, older penguins just didn't give a fuck. They simply didn't use the shit they couldn't use, and missed none of it. They worked to extend what they had, the digital commons.

No one could stand TVs, so as an act of disobedience, we invented p2p piracy. Napster, DC, torrents — which are alive and kicking. Xiph gave no fucks and started working on free media codecs. Vorbis became CELT became OPUS. Tarkin became Daala became (merged into) AV1. Youtube is now serving OPUS and VP9 or AV1; our best codecs trace their lineage to DIY stuff done to avoid proprietary formats. H.266 can, and will, fuck off. PDF is everywhere. Jimbo started Wikipedia. Flash went away. The modern web happened. Linux grew up and I don't even notice I'm using it. Free software ate nonfree in most domains; the gardens are now walled through access, not by being built on proprietary stacks. Massive progress happened.


Now that the digital world runs on services — which were a clever ruse to subvert old free software (Google runs on Linux, remember?) — someone is threatening to close a few pipes. So what? Just look at the fucking size of those commons that we have created. Someone will claw back some of that... and? Worst case, we lose a few ways to waste our time, of which we have hundreds. Retract from the mainstream a little, again. Have some difficulties using a few services. Be careful which hardware we buy. Oh noez.

Shit changes constantly. Companies battle relentlessly to undercut one another. We invent workarounds and grow our knowledge. Relax, get yourself LineageOS+MicroG or GrapheneOS or even a Fairphone; get a Framework; use Fediverse; get off those services and sail the high seas where needed; use Linux+Firefox if you aren't already; touch grass; and if someone tries to force you into extracting rent — refuse it.

Persist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Amazing post. As someone born in the 2000s, this is definitely an unknown story for me (I grew up with WinXP), and I didn't get to live this virtual freedom revolution. I do remember that MS owned everything though, they were the big promise, the big company that made computers and the internet work. Microsoft was everywhere.

Definitely an interesting story, I will definitely continue supporting open standards and free software, possibly even contributing once I get better at programming ;)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Honestly? As I get older and as the tech industry chokes itself to death in pursuit of infinite profit, I find myself doing more and more things away from the computer or the internet at the very least. Spending time outside doing stuff, exercising, reading books, partaking in art or other creative pursuits, having pets, etc. I have really dialed back my social media involvement and I hardly ever use my phone now.

The internet is absolute garbage now. It's a completely unregulated trash fire that is only getting hotter as more gasoline gets dumped on it. The internet I grew up with, the internet of seemingly endless possibility and unfathomable amounts of information, is long gone. Search results (from any engine) are all SEO trash, websites are just AI-generated garbage covered in ads, and every app or service is a subscription that promises to suck even more money out of my bank account for basic services. Not to mention that all of the above will also monitor every single bit of my activity and sell it to third party buyers. If tech is just going to exist to be an ad-delivery platform then I can do without it. People did for decades, centuries, and we can too.

This bubble is going to pop eventually. It not might be today or tomorrow, but it is going to happen. This is not sustainable.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The internet is absolute garbage now

Well, it always was. The internet was always filled with low effort webpages with ads from top to bottom. The only change is that as people got better at avoiding the old scams, new ones appeared with better CSS and more psychological manipulation.

ad-delivery platform

It is basically this. Most websites just try and dig into your profile, masking it as "personalized customer service", but the real intention is to know what you do, who you talk to, and try to sell you goods & services.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

It definitely wasn't always that. Sure, there were lazy, greedy, fuckers in the early internet putting up crap content and "you're the 1 millionth visitor, you win an iPhone!" Pop-ups, but for a good decade or more the internet was filled with passion projects. Websites and services built from passion and desire, not for an endless pursuit of money. When corporations were ignoring the internet as a fad, it was a remarkable place. Once they realized how much money Google and MySpace were making, they all jumped in head first and began the rapid enshitification of the digital frontier. The same type of people that ruined the physical frontier ruined the digital one as well. Pinche jotos.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

It's the #enshitification of everything. I listened to an interview with SAG-AFTRA by a new podcaster trying to survive and just when they start talking about the investors and products admitting to trying to build out till October when actors and writers start getting evicted... then some Amazon streaming services ad. And it happened again towards the end. And no warning or apology or mindfulness from the podcaster. So so depressing. The interview was great and happy to have heard it. Wish I could get access to information unpolluted by advertisement and capitalism. Thank goodness for the fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Not that it contradicts your comment, but it's worth noting those ads could well have been inserted by the platform or the podcast publisher.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Dunno, I don't use shitty apps that aren't available in F-Droid and I'm all the better for it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Completely agree in substance and spirit, but not on this framing of everything as about ownership. Personally I don't want to "own" data any more than I want to own a car. What I want is control, rights, privacy and personal freedom. The ownership obsession seems to me a red herring that just proves how much we've been taken in by consumer capitalism.

Forgive the rant. I agree with you on the substance.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Me too. I just want people (and the businesses they run) to deal with me honestly and fairly. If C-suite execs and investors were named and shamed over and over again, even for the little things, they might grow a heart and learn to build humane companies. Co-Ops give me hope. Free Geek in the Pacific Northwest. Independent book shops and restaurants. Qwant, MetaGer and Brave search and ublock origin and Mozilla and the fediverse give me some hope.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Agreed, I'm currently moving my digital life to free software to escape that bullshit.

While everything else seems to be caught up in enshittification, free software is constantly improving.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I undertand this feeling. I have a group of friends which use Messenger as a main chat app and they refuse to stop using it for convenience, but most of the features they label as convenience are the exact thing that are wrong with it. Many other platforms, despite not being perfect, have the same/more features and are better implemented.

Even if you transfer to a new and better platform, the big companies don't let go easily. They buy those new platforms and change them or just nuke them. If they can't, they will use ways to detect who is using alternative platforms and alienate them. It is just like the Phoebus cartel, which controlled progress to maximize profit. They are not against you or progress, they are against anything which reduces their potential monetary value.

I disagree when you mention subscriptions as a bad thing. Subscriptions have existed since forever, and work well when you deal with a service, for example paying a subscription to a video creator you like, or maintenance costs of hardware you use.

But not everything is grim. I have seen a lot of new FLOSS projects appearing everywhere, and people are becoming more aware of the many alternatives. I've even seen non programmers using ChatGPT (or equivalent) to create their own self-hosted platforms, showing that even those not techinal people are able to contribute to the general community.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I didn't understand when everyone jumped on Facebook messenger instead of just using their phone's built in text messaging and I still don't. It's like people crave spying or something...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Because on a lot of countries (like mine), text messages (SMS), are paid or very limited. For example, I only have 2k per month. And remember that some texts, can count as 3 SMSs depending on the number of characters they have.

Since Android is the most used OS here, apps like WhatsApp and Messenger are the default ones. They could/should move Signal/Telegram, but that’s another subject.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

That at least explains your situation, it doesn't explain the people around me in this country. Everyone rushed to download those apps, despite knowing that Facebook analyzes everything.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Technology creates fiefdoms where rentiers extract value from the rest of us. But I’m not losing hope

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Don't blame technology; blame capitalism. Technology could equally well be used to benefit everyone, but doing that doesn't vastly increase the personal wealth of the already wealthy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

This is exactly it. Free Open Source Software aims to benefit everyone, but the downside is that it has mostly benefited private corporations who leech off of the free labor of the FOSS community. Capitalism ruins fucking everything.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Compatibility issues? Unspecified root problems? Nope, I ain't feeling'em.

Tech knowledge is required to use smaller services? Just a fraction of what was required before, just about enough to operate in digital world in general.

Cars are becoming SaaS? Whatever brings them closer to extinction works for me.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Some companies are trying to bring SaaS to the world of bicycles. It's not going well. Or rather, they're going out of business.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

VanMoof did this. Then their Dutch branch went tits up. Now they have sold shit bikes that won't unlock without their cloud services.

They say they're being bought out and the bikes still work for now, but who knows what'll happen when the new owners think these servers are costing them too much money.

Luckily there's an app out there for VanMoof customers to download their unlock keys and store them safely (in an app on their phone or in plaintext form). Made by a competitor of VanMoof, funnily enough...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Things aren't as bleak in Europe :)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, we still suffer a bit. A lot of internet content originates from USA and the rest of America. And the big tech companies, who control a lot of the market standards, are also from there.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

And the U.S. completely lost any interest in regulating companies or breaking up monopolies, seeing how the representatives are constantly bankrolled or looking to be bankrolled by those very monopolies.

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