this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
41 points (100.0% liked)
World News
21929 readers
129 users here now
Breaking news from around the world.
News that is American but has an international facet may also be posted here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
For US News, see the US News community.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Being a climate activist is important.
Being malicious to others is garbage behaviour and you're doing nothing but making sure people actively want to hurt the environment out of spite.
These people also give genuine climate activists a bad name. Reminds me of when extremists ruined the word feminist. It's hard to explain to people that you want women to be treated equal, but you don't hate men and want them to die.
No form of protest is acceptable to liberals (let alone conservatives). When you peacefully protest, no one pays attention, when you damage private property, everybody screams, when you are disruptive while not damaging said private property, you're still a dick. So who cares, keep on going.
The problem is protests like these hurt working class families. Folks just trying to get by. In my area, you can’t exist without a car. If you want to protest do something that affects the decision makers. People like me have no power.
In the areas of Hamburg that have been targeted not one single person needs an SUV. We have reliable public transport that's easily accessible to wheelchairs or strollers as well. So yeah, it did target the right people.
To what end? Do SUV owners write bills? Will inconveniencing nonpolitical randos get anyone talking about the issues, let alone talking about them without souring the discussion for climate activists, who now look like vindictive assholes?
This reads like petty vengeance against people with marginally larger carbon footprints and with the wrong kind of social performance, not genuine activism. If you're gonna slash tires, do it to the politicians ffs.
I mean...here we all are...talking about it. Some people are being more civil than others, but some people are genuinely attempting to discuss the role of individual responsibility in the face of catastrophic climate change.
They didn't slash the tires, they just let the air out. No damages.
I would rather they slashed politician's tires than let out the air in random people's tires.
I'm pretty sure that Hamburg isn't such an area, and that SUV's are a totally unecessery folly there. This isn't hurting working class families. (Also, people like you do have power, organize)
Yeah, they should've thought of that before being too poor to buy multiple vehicles for each situation.
I'm going to assume that you don't know this so I'm gonna let you know: the targeted area is one of the most expensive to live in in Hamburg. And I'm going to repeat myself. Almost nobody in Hamburg needs an SUV.
You think poor people drive around SUVs in Hamburg because they use them for work?
The problem, in my country at least, is that these working class folks who just want to get by still vote for the same parties that don’t give a shit about the environment. So I’d say they are clearly part of the issue.
this "but the working class need to move around" tend to also be the first that complain when a bike or bus lane are made.
they mostly target SUVs. Also people of higher income are way more likely to have SUVs and use them more often.
I wonder how many people on the receiving end even change their mind. I feel like if anything they'd completely reject the cause that is trying to be pushed, and the end result is a circle jerk between people who were already in agreement.
Well, if they want to go shopping right now, chances are for this one trip they'll take their spouses smaller car, public transport or maybe even walk. If SUVs become generally unreliable (because you never know if you have air in your tires when you need it), people will look for something more reliable. They'll bitch about it, they won't act out of conviction or so, but who cares.
The SUV owner is going to pay a cost eventually either way, the only difference is when they pay enough of a cost from climate change itself to wake up it will be far too late, so you may as well exact the cost on them now wherever you can so they cannot ignore that it is effecting their life in an immediate way.
That said, I think protests like this are primarily about keeping climate change squarely in public discussion. Same reasoning with the activists who splashed paint on the glass cover of that Van Gogh painting.
No one anywhere should be able to just ignore climate change and nothing is more important than confronting it, not an SUV, not a glass cover on a Van Gogh painting, not the coal jobs in West Virginia.
These type of actions do have an effect in SUV sales though.
I'm a liberal, I can field this one. The form of protest I find acceptable is destruction of government and corporate property, but not working-class peoples' houses and mom-and-pop businesses. Is it really so much to ask to have rioting confined to productive activities, such as trashing city hall, looting Amazon DCs, destroying private jets and yachts, assaulting corrupt politicians, tarring and feathering billionaires, and burning down police stations? The establishment has successfully recuperated progressive protest by tricking people into associating it with low-level domestic terrorism, "we get what we want or maybe your houses burn down"; what we should be doing is repeatedly yanking the choke chain on the state and the 1% so hard their eyes pop out.
There are always going to be a "protest/activism is good but this is unacceptable" for any act of disobedience.
Trashing "city hall" isn't productive.
It depends on what the goal of the protest is and an assessment of whether the act is going to actually be successful in bringing about the change they want.
If that isn't taken into account it'll just make people more ingrained in their beliefs, and possibly increase hatred towards the groups and the cause overall. Which can just lead to increased conflict and increase extremists on both spectrums.
Sometimes then the cause just devolves into people on both sides just reveling in getting to act out their primal desires.
If you own a SUV and you know there is a risk of your tires being deflated by taking it to the city center (or if it has happened to you already), you will probably avoid it.
Climate activists have been trying peaceful, convenient protests for decades now yet humanity is fucking up the environment faster than ever.
That is why I like this targeted actions over the gluing themselves to the road ones. This is targeted to people destroying the climate. I don't think there is any good reason to drive an SUV or a sports-car in a city, and it is actively harmful. To pick up your equivalence: Feminists fight misogyny and inconvenience those guys actively showing it without necessarily alienating average guys.
If your example with feminism shows us something, it's that no matter what you do your actions will be misconstrued by bad actors and your image will be tarnished in a counter-campaign regardless, so if you want to protest something, just skip the phase when you do polite convenient gentle reminders, and go straight to violence and terrorism, if that's what you will be seen as anyway.
lmao wait who gave feminists a bad rep? what is this altright strawperson?
I think they're talking about the post-GamerGate anti-SJW movement where atheist youtubers converted to debunking straw-feminists. Maybe they've gotten out of that pipeline but haven't internalized that those "bad" feminists were caricatures of their actual positions or cherry-picked crazies?
yes, this is likely the case, the last sentence