this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2023
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Can they tell the differences between installs or can't they? Either way, they're definitely lying to their users.

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[–] [email protected] 122 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Even worse, https://unity.com/pricing-updates is posted on their site:

"We leverage our own proprietary data model and will provide estimates of the number of times the runtime is distributed for a given project – this estimate will cover an invoice for all platforms."

Estimating how many copies you sold based on your own 'data models' which is impossible to track? Isn't that like a giant red flag for laundering money?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Yeah I don't understand how that works. Will that even stand up to a lawsuit? Wouldn't they have to give up stuff in discovery if a game company sues to find how they were billed?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

I think it's crazy that they want to write invoices based on estimations. Why didn't I ever do that? "Oh yeah, I estimate that I worked about um... 2 weeks on that feature."

[–] [email protected] 109 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

In my opinion, it's bad either way for different reasons

If they do tell the difference, then there is some tracking built into the machine that runs the engine, which is bad for the application user

If they don't tell the difference, then there will be exploits for intentionally reinstall multiple times, which is bad for the application developers

[–] [email protected] 21 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Not bad for mega corporation's that only care about money

[–] [email protected] 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It's still bad for their profit margins when their stocks fall by 8% in one day, when major indie developers announce they'll be moving their current projects off of Unity and future developers are deterred from using their software in the first place.

Whether they care about money or care about public relations, their shooting themselves in the foot on both counts.

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[–] [email protected] 94 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Don’t try to find a meaning in this, just switch to something FOSS. Look at how the 3D modeling world is since Blender became a real competitor.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 9 months ago (1 children)

TIL: There is not only one, but several FOSS game engines (e.g. Godot Engine, GDevelop, Cocos2d-x...). Cool :)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Do the different ones have separate use cases? Or are they all pretty similar in terms of intended functionality and user knowledge requirements?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I only just googled them, but they do look quite different. I assume some are specialised in 2D games, platformers or role playing or mobile games.
Godot seems to be the most sophisticated engine and supports 2D as well as 3D.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Haven't tried any of those other ones you mentioned, but i can vouch for Godot, it's pretty amazing (granted, i'm not a professional developer, but Godot has worked great for my hobby projects)

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

As an outsider: How is it?

[–] [email protected] 76 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This whole thing is absurd and overcomplicated - they could have just copied Unreal and slightly undercut them.

It isn't too complicated, but for example, a game which made $2 million in gross revenue would owe Epic Games $50,000, because it would pay 5 percent of $1 million, keeping the first million entirely—minus whatever other fees are owed, such as Steam's cut.

There should also absolutely have been a grandfather clause for games already released.

I get Unity needs to make money. They've never been profitable. But they've seriously overcomplicated the whole thing and gotten people angry at them.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm not even sure this is a price increase. It probably is, but I think a lot of people will pay less.

They are just reserving the right to bankrupt you, at random, without any previous warning, because they want. There's no good reasoning anywhere.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

I agree. I think a price increase can totally make sense. Shit's expensive nowadays, we get it.

They seem to want to create a new revenue stream from games published on Unity retroactively.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Do installs of the same game by the same user across multiple devices count as different installs?

We treat different devices as different installs. We don’t want to track identity across different devices.

Jesus Christ. A single user can freely install the game repeatedly and bankrupt a creator.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I can definitely see one of those "ree woke game" types doing this.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

I can see this going wrong with steam proton if each install gets it's own wine config, simply reinstalling or updating might look like a new machine

[–] [email protected] 53 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I guarantee they put zero thought into how this would actually work, and have just been making stuff up as they go.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago

Sounds like the idea came to Riccatello in a dream. Damn CEOs are so used to getting their way they just think and it will manifest bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

They’re straight up gaslighting!

Before:

Yes. The creator will need to pay for all future installs. The reason is that Unity doesn’t receive end-player information, just aggregate data.

After:

We are not going to charge a fee for reinstalls. The spirit of this program is and has always been to charge for the first install and we have no desire to charge for the same person doing ongoing installs.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 9 months ago

Someone tell them they can achieve the latter much more effectively if they simply charge once FOR EACH COPY SOLD.

Hmmm... but then what about humble bundle sales or freemium games? Maybe the charge should change depending on the price of the game...

OH WAIT THAT'S REVENUE SHARE. Seriusly this whole thing is just an attempt at taking more money than devs would be willing to pay, by using a model without an up front percentage.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

kind of hard to gaslight when hundreds of news sites already have copies of the thing you said before published

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Didn’t stop them from trying!

[–] [email protected] 29 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I may get downvoted to hell for this, but besides the shady business practices, Unity sucks as a game engine. You can just feel the engine eating resources for no good reason and the gfx don't come close to UE5.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Oh, I don't think anybody will disagree that Unity is completely unoptimized and barebones compared to Unreal. It is also hard to learn and confusing compared to Godot.

There used to be a huge amount of people that wanted exactly something easier to learn than Unreal and more featureful than Godot. But those two improved in a way that this niche may not even exist anymore. Anyway, currently Unity has that unbeatable marketplace, and I really don't know if there's a good enough replacement somewhere, but I don't see any other reason to use it.

(But then, I'm not really a game developer. I've used those here or there, for fun.)

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Not quite. Unity isn't poorly optimized, but it's not great either. Unity also is very easy to learn, hence the number of really shit games put out from it.

Source: have been using Unity for the past 10 years

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Wow, a proprietary quasi monopoly changes their business model into something extremely exploitative and hostile. I am totally surprised! Shocked even! Blimey!

Seriously, why spend years of your life learning to work with some technology that can at anytime be made instantly obsolete or impractical to use when some random asshole you don't know decides something dumb. If there's a FOSS alternative, always prefer that.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Wait why charging for an install? What is going on?

[–] [email protected] 41 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's why software needs to be open source, not just free.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Godot is a good example of a free and well-developed open source game engine. It'll probably see a sharp rise in adoption following this controversy from Unity.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (3 children)

See a sharp rise? Was that an intentional C# reference?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago

LMAO

I work with C# daily and even I didn't realize I made a pun there xD

Maybe it's just embedded in my subconscious at this point...

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The year of Godot games is coming

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

This is far more likely than the year of the Linux desktop

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

sounds like you’ve missed a couple of days of the newest Unity drama

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Because greed. Is there any other explanation?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

Instead of revenue sharing like some places do Unity want a $0.20 fee , less depending on your sales numbers, for installing a unity game.

https://blog.unity.com/news/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

They announced a new business model effective next year. It’s plastered all over the net, just look up “Unity news” and you’ll get a ton of hits on it. Lots of coverage on YouTube as well.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

They could promise to pay the developer a fee per install and it wouldn't matter. You can't trust them anymore.

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