I'm gonna recommend Framework to everyone because not only are they built with Linux in mind, but they're also built with repairability/upgradability in mind. Unfortunately I don't believe these come pre-loaded with Linux, but honestly, if you're comfortable using Linux, installing it will be the easiest part.
You can at least buy them without Windows preinstalled so you're not paying for a Windows license you're not going to use anyway. They also just launched a "Linux" keyboard that has a Super key instead of a Windows key.
Lol, it's a small thing, but I definitely wouldn't mind having a different key for a non-Windows machine.
I'm okay with blank hardware, I've done all my desktop builds for more than 25 years (and recently did the SSD upgrade on a SteamDeck). I just never new there was anything similar available on the laptop market. My concern was more with paying for a Windows license or having hardware that was a subpar choice for linux drivers. I will definitely be learning more!
Would a Steam Deck be a viable option? Built for gaming, functions well when using a dock (the official one is really nice).
I have one and it would probably work for my needs when docked, but I mainly use my laptop as a laptop. Its frustrating that such an inconsequential part (the HDMI port) is making me consider replacing an otherwise functioning laptop. Trying to get it repaired is probably the smarter option, its a shame laptops aren't more user repairable. It definitely makes the Framework laptop that people are recommending appealing if I decide I'm willing to spend some money.
In that case, count my recommendation as a framework. I loved my 13” 11th gen (I was in wave 3 initial ordering) when I was using it mostly daily. The battery was not great but did improve over the first year as BIOS updates rolled out. I retired that machine as a laptop by 3D printing their mainboard case and jamming all the internals inside. Currently using it as a network appliance but the case I printed did not have room for the battery. I’m gonna do that later so it has its own “UPS” so to speak. For now it’s on my makeshift stack of machines that I call a homelab and it powers several network services and runs Debian. I did not run Linux on it while it was a laptop however so I’m not able to provide data on its hibernation/sleep reliability or WiFi/ battery performance.
Here's an idea: buy Framework 16. It's expensive, yes, but if your HDMI port stops working it's not an issue because internally it connects via USB so you can buy a new insert for hdmi for $20.
Not only that, but the dGPU can be removed and upgraded to a newer model. It's the only laptop on the market that can do this, and I'm waiting for the next AMD GPUs to actually buy a dGPU for my laptop. The iGPU actually games well too! I think similar to a 1050 or 1050ti in some games.
It doesn't come preloaded with Linux, but it has excellent support for it.
What about a steam deck?
I actually have one, but I use my laptop as a laptop the majority of the time and the steam deck would not work well for that. I suppose an alternative to buying something new would be to properly setup cloud storage so I could more easily switch between laptop and desktop PCs rather than "docking" (aka KVM) my laptop when I want to use a proper setup at my desk. My poor desktop is essentially unused at this point other than occasionally streaming games to my laptop.
Maybe the Framework 13. I'd suggest an AMD APU. Something with the 7840U/HS or the 8840U/HS. It's iGPU is very potent. Use the Bazzite OS and OnlyOffice with Microsoft fonts installed is a fantastic MS Office alternative.
How's the battery life?
I'm planning on getting one but I've heard the battery life is only decent if you use windows and abysmal if you use Linux.
I don’t know personally either. I’ve been doing some research to get a FW13 to put Linux on it, and from what I can see the biggest battery life issues are due to standby power management in Linux not being great. It looks like “fixing” that requires jumping through a lot of not-so-well documented hoops. I’m still not sure about battery life differences under load.
If it’s just hibernate/suspend not working well, I got used to that with a work thinkpad I had with Ubuntu. For my use, it was a little annoying but I was happy to deal with it because I could daily drive Linux
I don't know personally as I don't have a FW13. I would like one. I just have experience with the other stuff. Look on the FW forums, it's quite active.
I bought a Tuxedo two years ago. They have affordable (and highly configurable) Linux laptops, some of which are aimed at gamers.
The issue with gaming on laptops is that you'll need to spend at least 1200$ at the bare minimum to play anything and 1600$ to have a good experience. And even then, the laptop is pretty much disposable and will be severely outdated in 5 years.
The best option for a laptop would be the Framework Laptop, but these can go for 3000$. The big advantage is that they're worth every penny as they are upgradable. You can literally swap every part, including the motherboard. The aftermarket value for these laptops is going to be amazing.
That Framework seems like overkill, but I really like the idea. Maybe I'll hold out a little while until I see what my job situation is and if things go well I can reward myself! 😀
The best deal is probably going to be looking for a used machine with a 3080Ti. There were several of these made with Intel 12th gen CPU's. That is probably the cheapest way to get a 16 GB GPU. They can be found for considerably less than $2k. Anything with a "3080Ti" where the "Ti" part is super important, has a 16 GB GPU, (the "3080" is 8GB). That was the only 16 GB laptop GPU until the newer Nvidia 4k stuff.
That can play any game, and can run some large models for AI stuff if you become interested. On the AI front, you want maximum system memory too if possible. My machine can only address 64 GB of sysmem. Some go up to 96 GB. I wish I could get like 256 GB.
Just because a machine comes with Linux does not mean the problems are solved. You will find many times when people buy machines that have peripheral kernel modules that are orphaned and not part of the kernel. Orphaned kernels are not real Linux and are like phones. Indeed this is the exact mechanism used to steal your phone and prevent you from using it for its true hardware lifetime.
The real solution is https://linux-hardware.org/. Use that to see what works where. You also need to understand modern secure boot with the TPM chip and package keys. These exist outside of the Linux kernel. If delving into this system is too much for you to deal with or of no interest, just stick to using either Ubuntu or Fedora. These both have a special system outside of Linux that will handle the keys for you. Presently, these are the only two distro choices that do this; not derivatives either, it must be vanilla Ubuntu or Fedora. You won't be able to change anything in kernel space when going this route, but if the keys issue is unimportant, that probably won't be an issue.
Wow, looking at some of the system specs I was thinking, "who even needs 64GB of RAM?" I don't think I've ever had a system with more than 16GB. But I suppose there was a time when people thought the same about 512KB. I probably wouldn't shop used, but maybe refurb. I never buy extended warranties, but I do like having the initial guarantee when I buy a new device.
Everything else you mentioned is way outside my knowledge; I could probably learn, but I would rather just have something that works. I used to love getting into the technical stuff, but now I just want to turn on my device and use it.
I only need the ram to initially load an AI model.
Question: Do you intend to play games with high-fidelity?
Like, the latest gen iGPUs from both AMD and Intel are capable for light gaming (as can be seen on the many pc-handhelds). But, is that sufficient for you? Or, do you need more raw power on your device?
I've never cared about running high quality graphics, medium is fine for me. I'm more concerned with fan noise than graphics. My current system is fine for things like Skyrim and Sims 4, but for something like BG3 I'm streaming from my desktop.
Does your current laptop have a dedicated graphics card?
Can you try a USB to HDMI adapter? I don't recall how they work with a dedicated card. Haven't used one since Intel i7 gen 2 days, so my reference points are no longer relevant.
Mine has integrated graphics plus a dedicated card that it will switch to for higher demand applications. I was not aware of USB to HDMI, I'll check that out. I don't game when docked, so I only need the integrated graphics for that purpose. If that resolves my issue for now, I can put off a new purchase until I feel spendy enough to buy one of those Framework laptops!
ASUS machines have solidly good Linux support these days thanks to the asus-linux community effort. Any of their newer machines (~2021-2023) will fulfill your ask. I've had a good experience with the 2021 g15 and the 2022 X16 - I'm using the X16 as a work laptop right now.
System76 has gaming laptops with Linux preloaded, but they start at around $1700 if you want a dedicated GPU.
Thanks! I notice that all of their gaming laptops have an NVIDIA GPU, but I see people complaining about NVIDIA drivers here regularly, is that an issue I should be concerned with? I would hope a system prebuilt for linux would have taken that into account, but I don't know that much about the complaints.
It's only an issue if you want to use Wayland and that issue will be fixed soon. There's also the Framework 16 if you want an AMD GPU.
A DIY laptop???!!! I had no idea such a thing existed, I will definitely be looking into this.
Pop os+ Nvidia 3090 user here, no problems
That's great to hear, from what little I have picked up from this community, I was leaning towards POP for my first attempt.
Yes it is. That's why their latest model is AMD.
The only AMD model I'm seeing is the Pangolin with a AMD Radeon 680M. That wouldn't be bad since it is roughly equivalent to the GTX 1650 I have now and probably way more efficient. Or do they have something newer that hasn't released yet?
It might have been Tuxedo
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