Do any of them know what the word "liberal" actually means?
this post was submitted on 14 May 2024
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There's a huge differentiation between social and economic liberalism! Liberals in the US means almost exclusively social liberalism. Liberal in the us is progressivism.
Economic liberalism is a Republican position, not a Democrat one.
@[email protected] I promise this is the last one, I've made my point
You've made it clear that you believe words do not have meanings, and are just vibes, yes.
300 million people having the same vibe
9 billion having the same vibe as me.
Multiple definitions of words can exist. When 300 million people agree on a definition, that's a valid definition.
Also, the RIDICULOUS ARROGANCE of Europeans never fails to astound me. 9 billion people? You really do think you represent the whole world lol. News flash, the colonial era is over, you lost your empires. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
I'm not a European, lol. The entire world and the entirety of academia understands Liberalism the way most people on Lwmmy use it, ie to refer to a pro-Capitalist ideology.
That makes it even more sad you're simping for a colonialist view
Are you saying the US isn't a colonialist project?
Not really on a scale comparable to Europe, no.
Damn, guess the Indigenous peoples were so thoroughly eliminated you forgot about them.
Yeah it was more genocidal than colonial
It was literally founded on settler-colonialism. Just because this resulted in such a profound and extensive destruction of countless peoples that are nearly wiped out today doesn't make it less colonial.
That's not colonialism. It didn't involve any colonies.
There were many colonies, lol. There was also Settler-Colonialism. Read about US history some time.
Yeah, and of the actual colonies America had, they were a tiny size/number compared to European ones. All of India, most of China, all of South America lol
I never said European countries were not colonizers, all I stated was that the US is a genocidal settler-colonial state and you can only do whataboutisms.
I said,
And I'm the one who said the US was genocidal, not you. Don't steal my woke-points, win your own fair and square.
You don't get woke points, you're a conservative, lol.
I'm a progressive, not that the distinction matters to you. You see everyone right of Lenin as a conservative.
Nah, you're directly concerned with attacking leftists and redefining words. Any anti-leftist can be considered a reactionary, but that word might not make sense to you.
Being anti-leftist =/= being reactionary
I understand we define them differently, but do you fundamentally disagree with the spectrum of "Leftist (revolutionary) -- Progressive -- Conservative -- Reactionary" ?
Yes, I fundamentally disagree with that.
Rejecting Socialism and the progression towards Worker Ownership is Reactionary behavior. You identify as a progressive, but you oppose all Socialism, and support Liberal Capitalism with robust social safety nets (unless you've pivoted).
You are therefore a reactionary.
How would you distinguish between Manchin Democrats, McCain Republicans, and MAGAs? I would call the former two "conservative" and the latter "reactionary", but if you consider all of them to be reactionary, what labels would you use to differentiate them?
They are indeed all reactionary, though I would use Liberal and Fascist. All 3 are conservative liberals, and all 3 reject leftist movement, but MAGA in particular is a fascist movement.
Ok that makes sense. So Elizabeth Warren vs Joe Biden vs Joe Manchin? Any differences there?
Minor. All 3 are liberals and all 3 are reactionary. Getting into the weeds for specifics won't really change their overall labels.
They all support "current system + minor tweaks," and the "current system" part does heavier lifting than "minor tweaks."
Is there anyone who is neither a leftist nor a reactionary? Or do you think everyone has to be either for worker ownership (leftist) or against it (reactionary)?
It's a spectrum, unintentional anti-leftism due to a lack of information isn't as reactionary as fascism, but both are reactionary.
Generally, you either support moving on to the next mode of production, or you reject that movement.
Got it. I still reject your central premise of hard labels regardless of real-world context, but everything you're saying makes sense and is internally consistent within that premise.
We disagree on a ton, but I don't believe either of us have been internally inconsistent.